Curse

mr monk rupsie · Apr 27, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Ahh this update is the biggest relieve! Pugging like in the old times.

At thunderheadkeep (HM + bonus) we had an suprisely good balanced party ^^.
1 warrior, 1 dervish, 1 rit healer, 1 monk, 1 necro/rit minion support, 1 paragon, 1 ranger and 1 ele. You could almost swear that this was an rainbow team. it had almost all classes (except mesmer + assasin i think). When defending the king we decided it was to boring and made a 4-4 split to fight our way to the spawn point!

Half way we noticed 1 warrior didnt had infused armor. Afther the regrouping at the spawn point it wasnt much of a problem tho

.

Imaginos · Apr 27, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

It seems that Zaishen quests were quite successful in putting critical mass together. And for some reason, people do not just load x-way but ... gasp ... play together!

First, I was quite surprised by competence. Yes, there was wammo with ursan, healbreeze monk, healer ritualist with WvK as elite, etc ... but generally it seems that people who zquest don't mess around and do their best to succeed (withing their own mindframe), and some even understand importance of party wide protection or benefit of prot spirit in hm. And if someone takes over leadership of group and sounds confident, people fall in line and follow him (maybe that were just german districts?).

One issue is that sometimes people give up too fast (perdition rock is unforgiving, but when group manages to defeat nearly all patrols at start before dying, attempting to redo all patrols without dying seems foolish.), but they at least try to stick with group. And I have yet to see some drama.

Then, there is lack of profession discrimination. Understandable. People hope to do this on all their chars and won't risk tit-for-tat. After all, "lol, loose useless x" is kinda stupid if you have your own x in queue on which you hope to earn some zoins too.

"Me, My necroes and PuG". That is quite interesting trend. I saw this several times: Party leader runs sabway and just takes 4 random people instead H/H. Looks like some people are just too attached to their trusted heroes. Hmmm.

Your random thoughts?

Funny I found it nigh impossible to get a group on my War for a few of these missions and no problem on my Necro at all. I'd say that profession discrimination is alive and well in GW as it's always been.

Parson Brown · Apr 27, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

I was very happy to PUG the Z-missions just for fun and to remember the old days...

Until... Rragar's!

Failed at least 5 times last night, including 2 groups that broke up well into level 2 when someone would complain that the dungeon was taking too long and that it wasn't worth it for some Z coins! This is after an hour-plus each time (pugs are slow).

Typical conversation went like this:

Player 1: Are we almost done? I gotta go soon
Player 2: How soon?
Player 3: We're about halfway.
Player 1: That's BS just to kill a guy
Player 3: First time in a dungeon?
Player 1: No, 175th time, but I only do Slaver's
Player 1: Forget this, not worth it
<Player 1 has left the game>
Player 2: We can still do this
<Player 3 has left the game>
<Player 4 has left the game>
<Player 5 has left the game>
<Player 6 has left the game>
<Player 7 has left the game>
<Player 8 has left the game>

Aldric · Apr 27, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Pugged Raisu and THK yesterday in HM and managed both succesfully without any real problems.

Was surprised by Raisu actually since we had no primary healers at all and relied on one of the 3 Human Necros to go /Rt and keep us alive. 17mins iirc was the time at the end.

Heres hoping for a little pug revival

EPO Bot · Apr 27, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

"Only do slavers"

Im' shure there are people out there who buy a MMO, check wiki for the current hot drop and overpowered broken skill bar, install the game and get themselves rushed straight to the farming grounds.

Burst Cancel · Apr 27, 2009, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I think you guys are using the wrong metrics to judge competence. With consumables and PvE skills, there are many ways for players to hide incompetence. I PuG'd a few missions and we steamrolled them despite upwards of half the team clearly not knowing what they were doing.

Go check out the PvP areas when their respective Zaishen quests go live - the level of skill drops dramatically (although, the proportionate level of leeching naturally goes down). This is particularly noticeable in organized areas like TA.

Songbringer · Apr 27, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

meh I have yet to seriously try to pug any zquest. A dumb guildie of mine invited me to a group of like 4-5 pugs then we went out to do some quest. I forget which one but I had already done it and so I just ran around aggroing tons of crap for him not telling me what we were doing...

Sarevok Thordin · Apr 27, 2009, 01:01 PM // 13:01

I was the lone warrior in an all monk group in Raisu Palace, we blitzed it in HM in 15 mins.

I was astounded.

lewis91 · Apr 27, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Lol, its succeeded in getting our guild to play togeather more, but if we cant get 8 peeps, we use necro sabs for the rest

**cosyfiep** · Apr 27, 2009, 01:47 PM // 13:47

had mostly good experiences so far (though I did the palace with my nukers and my yes healing breeze monks..I usually h/h and healing breeze is not a problem with them

) cant wait to see if my mezzies and rits get the usually hate or accepted.
THK was another matter---group had no idea about the bonus and let me (nuker with no speed bonuses) try to get the beacons lite---nope, got giant stomped a few times thus not getting them in time......so did it with my mesmer and her h/h---got bonus no problems.
Think it all matters on where you go and which missions you are doing.
Didnt even try kanaxi and will do the dungeon when I get enough time....eg not this week.
I cant wait for the rest of the cantha missions to pop up in the zquest so I can get guardian of cantha on my monks and nukers

Shemsu Anpw · Apr 27, 2009, 01:58 PM // 13:58

I've had some mixed results as to how easy it is to get a group. My Paragon has had the least trouble with that. Overall people seem to be doing pretty good coming together for the quests. Though there is generally alot of people loking for a group...they could join one of the others that are looking for a group and start one. Only problem being no one takes paragons into the deep so I couldnt complete that one on the first day. And Rragnars Menagrie....sad so many fails and leavers I finally paid an outragous price for a runner to finish and got crap out of chest. Meh, what are you going to do with money anyways...25k let the scalpers come forth lol. But generally its nice to see people PuGing again. Would have made my getting Leg Guardian easier if it was done earlier. Should be great till they ask people to do Slavers Exile in HM PuG LOL. or DoA PuG for Zquest......

Shadowhaze · Apr 27, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I've really enjoyed pugs lately. It's so nice to see people in outposts doing stuff together - full party of real people! I've had good luck with them lately too. Only a few difficulties, but otherwise a piece of cake with everyone cooperating nicely to get things done. I didn't have a problem getting into groups with any of my chars really, and of course the monk was eatten up fast.

FalconDance · Apr 27, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I loaded in for Blood Washes Blood the first night with my ranger. All I saw was parties advertising for Ursan this-or-that. He!!, I don't even run Ursan on my warrioress!

Maybe I'll give it another go. I prefer a good PuG over H/H though lately we've been going out with Alliance members only. At least we know they know their skills!

Killed u man · Apr 27, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

And if someone takes over leadership of group and sounds confident, people fall in line and follow him (maybe that were just german districts?).

Your random thoughts?

That's just german mentality. Even even PvP, most germans play lame-ass builds with as most bitch bars as possible, so they don't have to think for themselves, but rather have someone think FOR them. Frenchies act in a similar way, with the difference that they are a bit more self-supportive. (Note, this is in general, there is exceptions, starcraft, people from BdV, etc...)

But yeah, you got a point. I was holding my heart (As a really experienced PvP, and someone who has legendary vanq, so experienced in PvE aswell) for the actual completion of these zquests.

Turns out most people have realized that when I (I usually takes charge when it comes to builds) tell them mending is bad, it actually IS bad, and they go with another, better skill. (Heal seed, etc)

I wish I had more map experience tough, as I, myself, am still relying on other people to do the "calling" part in missions such as DoA, Deep or Urgoz. (I've NEVER done this before, apart from Deep, which I did 4 days ago for the zquest)
Tbh, the zquest possibly is the best part of the latest update.

Zaishen manegerie is only IWAY-food, These way over-priced Pay-To-Play items are too expensive for me to buy in times where my parents are struggling to pay the bills. (Really, does the crisis not affect ANYONE here at guru? Or does everyone have a rich mommy and daddy who can pay for everything? o.0)

Back on topic now:

Yes, I do believe pugs have become smarter now, and a vast majority now actually goes to read the wiki BEFORE entering an elite area.

glacialphoenix · Apr 27, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Your notions are interesting and I'll be sure to try them out in the worst districts there are. American ones. <3

Finished THK on 4th try - first three teams broke up, but fourth team went off flawlessly - no deaths, fast killing, etc.

Finished Raisu on the first try. Not the fastest ever, but definitely better than I remember PUGs being.

(Yes, both on HM with all bonuses from zquest completed.)

I have to admit I liked monking for a THK pug again. There's something very nostalgic about going into THK and seeing all the "GLF monk".

I was surprised, because people were generally polite, tried to sync as best as they could. Every. Last. Team. made sure someone was going to run the beacons. Regardless of whether they leeroyed, or didn't camp at king after saying they would... there was more cooperation there than I ever saw during the Ursan heyday, which is when I last pugged.

The teams that worked out both had people who made sure we all had bars that worked together: the necros double-checked to make sure they weren't overlapping, that their bars worked - one of them noted that we were mostly a caster party and told us he was bringing BR; people called targets and others listened. My monk partner for that 4th THK team was awesome, too. (So was the rit!) Everyone had a good time, and there was a lot of 'I like this team' going around.

Even the teams that didn't work out left politely, without any fuss.

Quote:

Should be great till they ask people to do Slavers Exile in HM PuG LOL

They'll just do it old school, the way they did it before Ursan came around.

Quote:

I think you guys are using the wrong metrics to judge competence. With consumables and PvE skills, there are many ways for players to hide incompetence. I PuG'd a few missions and we steamrolled them despite upwards of half the team clearly not knowing what they were doing.

This is true. Things are of course easier with consumables and PvE skills, but sufficient competence with a PUG = getting quest done. I don't expect anything astoundingly good - the fact that a PUG team sat down, worked out ways to complement each other, etc. is good enough for me. The fact that in all my six PUGs everyone was polite and friendly is amazing in itself, considering my last experience with PUGs was Ursan, in which you could expect insults to fly in under 10 minutes.

Stuart444 · Apr 27, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I haven't done much pugging with the Zaishen quests but after hearing all of this, I'm hoping it stays like this for good long while. Nice to hear some people are having good experiences with pugs again

faraaz · Apr 27, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

I used to prefer taking H/H over real people (regardless of if they are guildies or allies or pugs) because I get frustrated by people running stupid builds easily and I'm very controlling when it comes to my party members.

However, I loaded up the traditional [WoH] [Protective Spirit] monk build and monked for an 8 human guildie team in Raisu Palace (we got a 11:15 time in HM) and I can honestly say I've never had this much fun monking for a PvE mission. So to summarise, gj Anet. You have gotten me to PvE with other human players (even if I will never ever pug under any circumstances).

IlikeGW · Apr 27, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Some things are alright. I don't know what's wrong with people and THK though... easy mission made to take forever because people make stupid mistakes over and over.

Shayne Hawke · Apr 27, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

To me, critical mass is going to bring all the bad builders to those areas too. I'll stay away from pugging unless we're dealing with jokes of missions, like Blacktide Den, or Boreas Seabed, or the like.

instanceskiller · Apr 27, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

yeah i agree!

i hope that this continues and we see the rebirth of true pugs

Lindsey is a genius for thinking of this although i wish they either decrease the requirement for the trades like equipment packs or increase the rewards like...maybe 200 points for the Raisu palace mission would have been nice?